FLCC> tuesday night rules
Donal Fitterer
DonalFitterer at vectormagnetics.com
Fri Jul 13 09:14:14 EDT 2007
I completely agree that we enter the corners too fast. I have taught
several people the "bad way" because they would get dropped on the
little hill after the corner on Midline. Glenn pushed me up that stupid
hill a few weeks ago because I took the inside line and had scrubbed too
much speed (and I'm a weenie).
I also gave Emmanuel a good scare on the Whitechurch-Coddington corner
as I approached from the outside in and he from the inside out. My
entry/exit speed was much greater than his, but he was going to enter
the corner first. I gave him the right of way because he was there
first. I have cut in front of people inadvertently with this technique
which is why I try to be one of the first riders into the corners on
Tuesday's.
Now how do we get people to slow down? Who is going to volunteer to
marshal?
d
________________________________
From: flcc-bounces at icycle.org [mailto:flcc-bounces at icycle.org] On Behalf
Of Ernie Bayles
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 8:56 AM
To: Sandy and Don Fitterer; FLCC at icycle.org
Subject: Re: FLCC> tuesday night rules
The exceptions prove the rule.
There are obvious points where exceptions will prevail, but, at the same
time, if we don't make some fundamental changes to the overall mindset
of the group, there are going to be problems. Personally, I would like
to really change our approach to corners entirely--midline is just too
dangerous at our usual speeds because you can't see traffic coming from
the left until you are already committed. Swinging over the yellow line
before a turn does give you a better line for a safe exit, but I would
like to suggest that it means you're coming into the turn too fast in
the first place. If the "neutral corners" rule were taken to heart, we
would be taking these turns at much lower speeds that allowed both a
safe entry and exit. No doubt this will change the dynamics of the race
since the guys trying to catch up will break every rule to do so. But
at least we will only have one or two deaths and not 10.
Maybe we need to have designated corner marshals?
Just my opinion
Sandy and Don Fitterer wrote:
Ernie,
I agree with most of what you say although I believe there are
exceptions to rules 1 and 4. The MIS (Midline Irish Settlement) turn is
one our more dangerous intersections. It is my opinion that approaching
the turn wide (which means across the yellow line) allows the rider to
enter the intersection on the very right hand side of the road. I often
do the same onto Rt79 to stay away from the white line. Same technique
when entering Coddingtom from Whitechurch.
You corrected me years ago about my speed onto Rt 79 and I have taken
your advice. When I've ridden with the A's the technique described above
is used by may of the riders.
Thoughts? Critique? Criticism?
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Ernie Bayles <mailto:ebarch1 at verizon.net>
To: Don Smith <mailto:smithaca at hotmail.com>
Cc: flcc at icycle.org
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:20 PM
Subject: FLCC> tuesday night rules
Don and all,
It is good to get into this thread from time to time. The
"rules" of tuesday nights have often been spoken, but perhaps now is a
good time to write them down. I'll start
1. The yellow line rule is in effect at all times, even when a
yellow line is not evident. Even in the sprint. If you can't get to
the front except by violating this rule, then save it for next week.
Flagrant violators should be yelled at. Lots.
2. The person at the front is responsible for making decisions
that are appropriate for those following you--avoid the potholes, stop
at signs if there are cars coming, ride in a predictable way.
3. The person(s) at the rear is responsible to monitor traffic
approaching from the rear. Calls of "car back" shall be relayed to the
front. This means that abnout every other rider should be sounding out
when a car approaches. Conversely, those at the front should yell "Car
UP".
4. The midline/irish settlement, midline/79 and white
church/coddington intersections (and all others) are "neutral" (this is
an old rule Don) --that is, you should not be using these corners as a
means of bettering your position in the pack either by crowding, cutting
off, or otherwise interfereing with the safe passage of another rider,
nor should one use a corner to increase one's lead on the following
riders either by approaching the turn at a speed that cannot be
corrected for oncoming traffic or by "gunning" it out of the corner. No
corner should be approached in such a way that you cannot react
appropriately to traffic. This rule needs to be reiterated and perhaps
discussed in more detail before our next ride to the whole rider group
as it has not really been enforced at all this year. We take way too
big a risk at these corners. Are brake pads that expensive?
5. On the ride out, two abreast maximum at all times. One
abreast when you hear "car back". Immediately.
please add more.
ernie
Don Smith wrote:
I have also noticed many transgressions that make our Tuesday night
events less safe, and more likely to draw negative attention from the
authorities and others who share the roads with us. I've seen plenty of
the previously mentioned crossing of yellow lines and shouts of "Car
back" not relayed, or ignored.
I'd like to raise one other issue that might help keep things safe and
viable. I've always felt that the most dangerous points in our rides
are the intersections that have a stop sign, like at Midline/Irish
Settlement, Irish Settlement/79, or White Church/ Coddington. What
usually happens is that the people who get through the turns first
immediately stomp on it. This encourages those behind them to want to
get through the intersectuion as fast as they can to avoid being
dropped. This can create a very dangerous situation, especially when
you add motor vehicle traffic to the mix. It also can lead to a
reckless type of bicycle behavior that would be frowned upon by the
authorities. Would it make sense to declare these intersections
"neutral" and discourage riders from attacking as they come out of them?
We could have an understanding that a group entering one of these
corners should stay together, maintaining the same order and spacing,
until the whole group has safely passed through.
How do you all feel about this?
Don Smith
________________________________
From: "Donal Fitterer"
<DonalFitterer at vectormagnetics.com>
<mailto:DonalFitterer at vectormagnetics.com>
To: <flcc at icycle.org> <mailto:flcc at icycle.org>
Subject: Re: FLCC> [Cookies] one person's view of
Tuesday night
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:23:14 -0400
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<mailto:flcc at icycle.org> ; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:22:09 -0400
Nick,
You are one of the best riders in our group and it is
important that you
speak up. I see a general lack of concern about traffic
on Tuesday night
and I really don't understand it. There are several "old
timers" who
don't think that car back needs to be heeded. If more of
us speak up and
say that the problem exists and your specific action is
the issue
perhaps we can make a difference.
How about at the start on top of Ringwood? We had the
whole road blocked
and a P.U. was trying to move through us safely. People
saw him coming
and still didn't move out of the way. Why was there a
need to even shout
at people to get out of the road? The only way Mad Dog
finally moved is
when I threw the dog biscuit into the bushes!
There seems to be this lack of consideration for the
cars we share the
road with. Complaints are going to occur and we need to
do our best not
to create unnecessary situations.
Don
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