FLCC> tuesday night rules
Mark Rishniw
mr89 at cornell.edu
Fri Jul 13 11:15:35 EDT 2007
The other issue of going into the Midline/Irish
Settlement corner from over the yellow line is
that if a car is coming along Irish Settlement
and makes a Right turn, they turn straight into
the rider who is violating the yellow line
rule. I was at the front of the field on Tuesday
night through this turn, so I didn't see how
bunched up it was behind, but given the speeds we
were going at, I suspect it was relatively strung
out, so that people could hold speed and line
through the turn without going 5 wide. Still,
I'm willing to go through at a neutral pace and
am willing to be the "corner marshall" in the B's
who slows things down at that turn.
M
At 09:14 AM 7/13/2007, Donal Fitterer wrote:
>Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7C54F.8EA41587"
>
>I completely agree that we enter the corners too
>fast. I have taught several people the “bad way”
>because they would get dropped on the little
>hill after the corner on Midline. Glenn pushed
>me up that stupid hill a few weeks ago because I
>took the inside line and had scrubbed too much speed (and I’m a weenie).
>
>I also gave Emmanuel a good scare on the
>Whitechurch-Coddington corner as I approached
>from the outside in and he from the inside out.
>My entry/exit speed was much greater than his,
>but he was going to enter the corner first. I
>gave him the right of way because he was there
>first. I have cut in front of people
>inadvertently with this technique which is why I
>try to be one of the first riders into the corners on Tuesday’s.
>
>Now how do we get people to slow down? Who is going to volunteer to marshal?
>
>d
>
>----------
>From: flcc-bounces at icycle.org
>[mailto:flcc-bounces at icycle.org] On Behalf Of Ernie Bayles
>Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 8:56 AM
>To: Sandy and Don Fitterer; FLCC at icycle.org
>Subject: Re: FLCC> tuesday night rules
>
>The exceptions prove the rule.
>
>There are obvious points where exceptions will
>prevail, but, at the same time, if we don't make
>some fundamental changes to the overall mindset
>of the group, there are going to be
>problems. Personally, I would like to really
>change our approach to corners entirely--midline
>is just too dangerous at our usual speeds
>because you can't see traffic coming from the
>left until you are already committed. Swinging
>over the yellow line before a turn does give you
>a better line for a safe exit, but I would like
>to suggest that it means you're coming into the
>turn too fast in the first place. If the
>"neutral corners" rule were taken to heart, we
>would be taking these turns at much lower speeds
>that allowed both a safe entry and exit. No
>doubt this will change the dynamics of the race
>since the guys trying to catch up will break
>every rule to do so. But at least we will only
>have one or two deaths and not 10.
>
>Maybe we need to have designated corner marshals?
>
>Just my opinion
>
>
>Sandy and Don Fitterer wrote:
>Ernie,
>
>I agree with most of what you say although I
>believe there are exceptions to rules 1 and 4.
>The MIS (Midline Irish Settlement) turn is one
>our more dangerous intersections. It is my
>opinion that approaching the turn wide (which
>means across the yellow line) allows the rider
>to enter the intersection on the very right hand
>side of the road. I often do the same onto Rt79
>to stay away from the white line. Same technique
>when entering Coddingtom from Whitechurch.
>
>You corrected me years ago about my speed onto
>Rt 79 and I have taken your advice. When I've
>ridden with the A's the technique described above is used by may of the riders.
>
>Thoughts? Critique? Criticism?
>
>Don
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:ebarch1 at verizon.net>Ernie Bayles
>To: <mailto:smithaca at hotmail.com>Don Smith
>Cc: <mailto:flcc at icycle.org>flcc at icycle.org
>Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:20 PM
>Subject: FLCC> tuesday night rules
>
>Don and all,
>
>It is good to get into this thread from time to
>time. The "rules" of tuesday nights have often
>been spoken, but perhaps now is a good time to write them down. I'll start
>
>1. The yellow line rule is in effect at all
>times, even when a yellow line is not
>evident. Even in the sprint. If you can't get
>to the front except by violating this rule, then
>save it for next week. Flagrant violators should be yelled at. Lots.
>2. The person at the front is responsible for
>making decisions that are appropriate for those
>following you--avoid the potholes, stop at signs
>if there are cars coming, ride in a predictable way.
>3. The person(s) at the rear is responsible to
>monitor traffic approaching from the
>rear. Calls of "car back" shall be relayed to
>the front. This means that abnout every other
>rider should be sounding out when a car
>approaches. Conversely, those at the front should yell "Car UP".
>4. The midline/irish settlement, midline/79 and
>white church/coddington intersections (and all
>others) are "neutral" (this is an old rule Don)
>--that is, you should not be using these corners
>as a means of bettering your position in the
>pack either by crowding, cutting off, or
>otherwise interfereing with the safe passage of
>another rider, nor should one use a corner to
>increase one's lead on the following riders
>either by approaching the turn at a speed that
>cannot be corrected for oncoming traffic or by
>"gunning" it out of the corner. No corner
>should be approached in such a way that you
>cannot react appropriately to traffic. This
>rule needs to be reiterated and perhaps
>discussed in more detail before our next ride to
>the whole rider group as it has not really been
>enforced at all this year. We take way too big
>a risk at these corners. Are brake pads that expensive?
>5. On the ride out, two abreast maximum at all
>times. One abreast when you hear "car back". Immediately.
>
>please add more.
>
>ernie
>
>Don Smith wrote:
>
>I have also noticed many transgressions that
>make our Tuesday night events less safe, and
>more likely to draw negative attention from the
>authorities and others who share the roads with
>us. I've seen plenty of the previously
>mentioned crossing of yellow lines and shouts of
>"Car back" not relayed, or ignored.
>
>I'd like to raise one other issue that might
>help keep things safe and viable. I've always
>felt that the most dangerous points in our rides
>are the intersections that have a stop sign,
>like at Midline/Irish Settlement, Irish
>Settlement/79, or White Church/
>Coddington. What usually happens is that the
>people who get through the turns first
>immediately stomp on it. This encourages those
>behind them to want to get through the
>intersectuion as fast as they can to avoid being
>dropped. This can create a very dangerous
>situation, especially when you add motor vehicle
>traffic to the mix. It also can lead to a
>reckless type of bicycle behavior that would be
>frowned upon by the authorities. Would it make
>sense to declare these intersections "neutral"
>and discourage riders from attacking as they
>come out of them? We could have an
>understanding that a group entering one of these
>corners should stay together, maintaining the
>same order and spacing, until the whole group has safely passed through.
>
>How do you all feel about this?
>
>Don Smith
>
>
>
>From: "Donal Fitterer"
><mailto:DonalFitterer at vectormagnetics.com><DonalFitterer at vectormagnetics.com>
>To: <mailto:flcc at icycle.org><flcc at icycle.org>
>Subject: Re: FLCC> [Cookies] one person's view of Tuesday night
>Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:23:14 -0400
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>Nick,
>You are one of the best riders in our group and it is important that you
>speak up. I see a general lack of concern about traffic on Tuesday night
>and I really don't understand it. There are several "old timers" who
>don't think that car back needs to be heeded. If more of us speak up and
>say that the problem exists and your specific action is the issue
>perhaps we can make a difference.
>
>How about at the start on top of Ringwood? We had the whole road blocked
>and a P.U. was trying to move through us safely. People saw him coming
>and still didn't move out of the way. Why was there a need to even shout
>at people to get out of the road? The only way Mad Dog finally moved is
>when I threw the dog biscuit into the bushes!
>
>There seems to be this lack of consideration for the cars we share the
>road with. Complaints are going to occur and we need to do our best not
>to create unnecessary situations.
>
>Don
>
>
>
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>what you’re getting into
before you go there
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>
>--
>Ernie Bayles, Architect
>209 Utica Street
>Ithaca, New York 14850
>
>607-275-3722 (tel and fax)
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>--
>Ernie Bayles, Architect
>209 Utica Street
>Ithaca, New York 14850
>
>607-275-3722 (tel and fax)_______________________________________________
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Mark Rishniw
Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.
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