FLCC> Bike lane for uphill state st?
david streater
nocarsdave at clarityconnect.com
Sat Sep 15 09:53:23 EDT 2007
-------- Original Message --------
> From: Paul Monkman <pmonkman at twcny.rr.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 9:55 PM
> To: William Lodico <wlodico at stny.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: FLCC> Bike lane for uphill state st?
>
> I'd like to chime in on this one, not because I'm interested in a
> protracted email discussion but because I think it's a important
> topic. Bill, your arguments against this bike lane are all good and
> well, but they assume non-aggressive, attentive, reasonable, patient,
> competent drivers who believe there is such a thing as cyclists
> "rights". I'd agree that a large fraction of the drivers probably
> more or less fit that description most of the time. It's the small
> remainder that'll get you. Those are the guys/gals that I prefer to
> be as far from as possible.
>
> Regarding wobble room, I think most of us can stay well within a five
> foot lane. Heck, if MTB riders can routinely negotiate 6"
> singletracks strewn with rocks, roots etc. I'm betting that most
> riders can easily keep 3' or so between themselves and a passing car
> in a five foot lane. Even clutsy types like myself!
>
> Fatter tires can reduce the need to dodge every little stone, bit of
> glass, etc. I know others may disagree and that's fine, but over the
> years I've found myself migrating to about an 1.5" high pressure tire
> mounted on sturdy wheels for practical riding. Hardly ever get
> flats, last forever, cheap, plenty fast, haven't trued a wheel in
> years, plus you can ride dirt roads and moderate trails on a whim.
>
> Left hand turns: Check for traffic behind you, wait for a break,
> stick out your left arm, move into the car lane and take your turn.
> Piece of cake.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 14, 2007, at 2:27 PM, William Lodico wrote:
>
> > Is a bike lane on the State Street Hill such great news?
> >
> > A five foot wide bike lane isn't very wide, especially for riders
> > struggling to go uphill.
> >
> > I occupy about two feet, elbow to elbow, on my bike. If there's a
> > bike lane I'm expected to stay in the bike lane. I should be aiming
> > at keeping my tire on a line about 3 feet from the right curb, to
> > give myself wobble room and a chance to avoid hazards by going to the
> > right without hitting the curb, since if I go the left, I'll be
> > suddenly in motor traffic that is expecting me to stay in the bike
> > lane. Even without the inevitable going-slow-uphill-side-to-side-
> > wandering this gives me only about one foot between my right elbow
> > and a vertical drawn from the bike lane stripe (as long as nothing
> > forces me farther left). Everything to the left of the bike lane is
> > for cars only.
> >
> > I haven't ridden up State Street in a long time, but the last time
> > was about midway through a 400k, and I was going about 5 mph, if
> > that. Without bike the lane, I was able to claim my space, make sure
> > traffic accommodated my interest in having it pass me slowly giving
> > me wide berth. With the bike lane, traffic will feel free to pass me
> > at 35 mph (a 30 mph differential), without worrying about how close
> > they are, as long as they are not in the bike lane. Many motorists
> > will probably consider themselves to the left of the bike lane if
> > their right tires are to the left of it, which will put fenders, door
> > handles within inches of my left elbow, and mirrors possibly into my
> > left shoulder. I can have my tire to the right of the bike lane
> > stripe and not be clear of traffic to the left of it.
> >
> > Is the City of Ithaca committed to daily sweepings of the bike lane?
> > Is it committed to removing all potential hazards, including manhole
> > covers? Is it committed to maintaining the bike lane above standards
> > for the rest of the road, so there are NO pot holes, cracks, broken
> > glass, stones, loose bits of pavement and other debris, that will
> > force cyclists out of the bike lane when traffic is expecting them to
> > stay in it? I'll bet the answer is no, no, and no again.
> >
> > And is there going to be appropriate and effective signage telling
> > motorists they have to give room to cyclists making left turns,
> > avoiding hazards in the bike lane, etc? Throw in another no.
> > Remember, they've been forced to give up five feet of otherwise
> > available roadway.
> >
> > The real effect of bike lanes (and maybe their real purpose) is not
> > to help cyclists. It's to confine them to what is often the most
> > dangerous and hazard ridden part of the road. It might also be to
> > "promote" cycling by making cyclists feel safer because there's a
> > quarter of a millimeter of paint on the road that's supposed to keep
> > cars from hitting them. Actually, bike lanes make it harder for
> > motorists to accommodate bicyclists and vice versa, since both have
> > lost accessibility to sizable chunks of roadway.
> >
> > It's just way better to try to get motorists to learn to accommodate
> > cyclists, to give them room, to see them as equally entitled users of
> > the roadway -- and to get cyclists to learn how to ride in traffic --
> > than to start cutting up the roadway into little pieces that
> > ultimately everyone is going to fight over anyway.
> >
> > I'm doing my best to kill bike lanes in Chemung/Schuyler/Steuben.
> > It's up to you-all to kill the bike lanes in Tompkins.
> >
> > Bill Lodico
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sep 14, 2007, at 12:57 PM, Wayne Gottlieb wrote:
> >
> > This is great news! Thanks for sharing. Now there's
> > no excuse not to bike up that hill. I'm sure after
> > they put the new lane in people will be abandoning
> > their car in droves. But, seriously, I've often chosen
> > to go up Buffalo or Court instead because it's so hard
> > to turn left onto 366 . I wonder how they're going to
> > solve that problem. Wayne
> > --- Amanda and Mark Shenstone <gardens at lightlink.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> This just in from Ithaca Journal:
> >>
> >>
> >> Part of the State Street hill may become more
> >> bike-friendly
> >>
> >> The Ithaca city Board of Public Works is
> >> considering making bicycle-friendly improvements
> >> to the part of State Street from the vicinity of
> >> the Commons to Mitchell Street. Among improvements
> >> being considered is an uphill bike lane.
> >>
> >> The city Board of Public Works is
> >> considering a plan that includes five-foot-wide
> >> uphill bicycle lane for the street, also known as
> >> state Route 79, from the Tuning Fork area, where
> >> State Street, Green Street and Seneca Way come
> >> together, to Mitchell Street, which at that point
> >> is also Route 366.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> This segment of State Street has been
> >> identified as a good place for improvement because
> >> it has a lot of traffic, is a link to key
> >> destinations, and has a relatively gentle slope.
> >>
> >> According to the city engineering office,
> >> the proposal before the Board of Public Works
> >> includes:
> >>
> >> A 5-foot wide uphill (eastbound) bicycle
> >> lane to allow bicyclists to ride at their own pace
> >> without obstructing motor vehicle traffic or
> >> feeling like they are obstructing motor vehicle
> >> traffic.
> >>
> >> . Relocation of centerline striping to
> >> create a wide downhill (westbound) travel lane
> >> that allows motorists and bicyclists to have
> >> adequate shared maneuvering space.
> >>
> >> . Consolidation of parking on the south side
> >> of the street and revision of on-street parking
> >> regulations.
> >>
> >> . Installation of bicycle-related signage
> >> and crosswalks.
> >>
> >> The Board of Public Works is taking public
> >> comment through the end of September and may vote
> >> on the project on Oct. 10. Comments and feedback
> >> can be directed to Tim Logue as above or at
> >> timlo at cityofithaca.org.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Amanda and Mark Shenstone
> >> Graceful Gardens
> >> PO Box 100
> >> Mecklenburg, NY 14886
> >> 607.387.5529
> >> http://www.gracefulgardens.com
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
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>
> Paul Monkman
> pmonkman at twcny.rr.com
>
>
>
>
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