FLCC> Rebuttal: for bike lanes

[Wayne Gottlieb]

Since I've lived a good life, I generally am not too
concerned on the road.  However, when I compare Ellis
Hollow from Judd Falls to game farm with Ellis Hollow
from game farm to my house (genung), It feels much
better on the lower section where there's a bike lane.
 Cars can travel unhindered around me and I feel as
though I have plenty of roadway to ride.  Past
Gamefarm where the bike lane ends, I have to squeeze
as tightly as possible against the edge of the road. 
Even then, all of the cars have to move into the other
lane to get around me.  Since these cars are going 45
MPH, it would be rude to expect them to wait for me
instead of going around.  I'm just not that fast  (I
heard that Jack..).  You're argument, if I understand
you correctly, is  that without the bike lane, cars
are more concious of me and thus are less likely to
hit me.  I think this is what pisses motorists off,
having to go around bikes or having to wait for a
clear shot to move into the other lane.  Ok, downtown
is another matter.  I never feel so constricted by the
traffic as when I come up State Street.  Between the
parked cars, the right turn lanes and the large
trucks, I sometimes just get onto the sidewalks to
continue moving up the hill.  Again, I don't want to
hinder traffic, because there's no way I can go fast
enough on my bike.  If there was a bike lane there, at
a minimum, I would know that I have a guaranteed space
to ride (more so than at present anyway).  Yes, at the
top, I will have to move out of the bike lane to make
a left turn, but at least I will not worry (as much)
about being pinned between a large truck and a parked
car.  Ok, fire away.  Wayne
--- William Lodico <wlodico at stny.rr.com> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
> 
> Would your friend accept bikes on a road posted with
> share the road  
> signs?
> 
> How about with:  "State Law: Bicycles may use the
> roadway" signs?   
> How about shared lane markings?
> 
> These are all viable alternatives to bike lanes and
> don't have the  
> the big downside:  bike lanes aren't part of the
> share the road  
> philosophy.  Bike lanes promote a "bikes stay in the
> bike lane and  
> the rest of the road is for cars" philosophy.
> 
> Actually, I don't think your friend is typical, but
> there are still a  
> lot of "bikes don't belong" drivers out there.
> 
> Did you try beating some sense into him with your
> frame pump?  Short  
> of that, did you voice your outrage?
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> On Sep 15, 2007, at 10:32 AM, Mike Mike wrote:
> 
> I have been an avid biker for about 32 years.  Have
> ridden quite a  
> bit in Upstate NY, NC and Florida.
> 
> Asked my friend about a bike lane.  He does not
> bike, does not  
> workout and was surprised to find out he thought
> bikes should NOT be  
> on the road.  That if you want to ride your bike the
> road.  I was  
> dismayed that he felt this way as he has come to my
> bike races and  
> triathlons and cheered me on.  Then I asked him
> about bike lanes and  
> he said yea sure if there is a sperate bike lane he
> had no problem  
> with people riding their bikes on the road.
> 
> This of course is N=1 but this is the typical person
> driving a car  
> out there.
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  > From: wlodico at stny.rr.com
>  > Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 09:59:13 -0400
>  > To: pmonkman at twcny.rr.com; flcc at icycle.org
>  > Subject: Re: FLCC> Bike lane for uphill state st?
>  >
>  > Well, Paul, you confirm I'm not preaching to the
> choir. If there are
>  > cyclists on this listserve who support bike
> lanes, I've got work  
> to do.
>  >
>  > Let me start with this question: how does a bit
> of paint protect a
>  > cyclist from drivers who don't fit into the
> "non-aggressive,
>  > attentive, reasonable, patient, competent" mold?
>  >
>  > I've found that a bike lane makes it harder for
> me as a cyclist to
>  > deal with drivers of whatever ilk or tendency. It
> can also make it
>  > harder for me as a motorist to deal with
> cyclists.
>  >
>  > My opposition to bike lanes does not rest on the
> premise that there
>  > are no problems without them.
>  >
>  > My opposition to bike lanes rests on the well
> supported and so far
>  > unrebutted argument that the solutions they
> pretend to provide (and
>  > some of the problems they pretend to solve) are
> illusory, and that
>  > almost always they aggravate problems (or create
> them) rather than
>  > solve them.
>  >
>  > There are solutions to real problems with the
> bike/motor interface
>  > that actually have a chance of working, including
> "shared lanes" and
>  > signage that reminds both motorists and cyclists
> how to conduct
>  > themselves. Bike lanes draw resources and
> attention away from those
>  > solutions; and they delude bike-ped committees
> and traffic planners
>  > into believing they're taking concrete steps to
> improving things for
>  > bicyclists, when they're really making things
> worse. More cynically
>  > stated: Bike lanes let authorities take credit
> where credit is not
>  > due, for the price of a few gallons of paint.
>  >
>  > The idea of isolating bike traffic from motor
> traffic is attractive,
>  > but a bike lane only pretends to do that. It
> really can't achieve
>  > that goal. It's a futile, counterproductive goal
> anyway, and when we
>  > go after it, we're grasping at straws.
>  >
>  > My opposition to bike lanes is also based on my
> experience as a
>  > motorists. Cyclists in bike lanes are encouraged
> to believe and act
>  > as if their occupation of a bike lane protects
> them from my car.
>  > They don't have to worry about whether I want to
> turn right or left
>  > or enter from a cross street or driveway. They
> don't have to worry
>  > about whether I can see them. They don't have to
> let me know what
>  > they're doing. Because they're in a bike lane!
>  >
>  > The left turn maneuver you suggest is a whole lot
> easier for me on my
>  > bike if I can use the whole roadway and move over
> and claim my space
>  > when an opening permits rather than being
> confined to the bike lane
>  > until I get to (or near) the intersection.
>  >
>  > Your suggestion of using fatter tires makes sense
> for short commutes
>  > in town, bike lane or no, and I sometimes use
> them for that purpose.
>  > But I and a lot others have no interest in
> trading our efficient,
>  > high pressure 23mm tires for softer 35's or 45's
> (assuming our bikes
>  > can accommodate them) just so we can ride through
> the hazards in a
>  > five foot bike lane somewhere along a training
> ride or a tour, which
>  > is what we do most of the time on our bikes. Long
> commutes are not
>  > exactly a fat tire opportunity, either.
>  >
>  > As for 3 feet of clearance between cyclist and
> traffic lane, do the
>  > math. Put me in a 5 foot bike lane. My moderately
> wide-body
>  > construction occupies 2 feet elbow to elbow.
> (I've measured it.) To
>  > maintain 3 feet of space between me and the right
> edge of the motor
>  > traffic lane, which is where motorists are
> expecting to be able to
>  > drive, I've got to ride with my tire a within one
> foot of the curb.
>  > Grate city, and I'm brushing telephone poles with
> my right elbow.
>  > It's hard for me to see traffic (including
> pedestrians and other
>  > bikes) entering from the right and it won't see
> me, since I'm hiding
>  > by the curb. If the bike lane goes by parked
> cars, I'm confined to
>  > the opening-door zone, which can have painful,
> even fatal  
> consequences.
>  >
>  > The NY Vehicle and Traffic Law requires me to
> ride in a "usable"
>  > bicycle lane. There may be some out there, but
> I've yet to see a
>  > truly usable bike lane. I've got lots of pictures
> of the three bike
>  > lanes in Chemung County clearly demonstrating
> that they aren't
>  > usable: broken pavement, garbage and broken
> glass, weeds and shrubs,
>  > broken tree branches and rocks, tire-eating
> drainage grates, cyclists
>  > riding the wrong way (posing a clear hazard to
> cyclists riding the
>  > right way), barriers, etc etc. I'm sure I'd have
> little trouble
> 
=== message truncated ===



       
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